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This is part two of an archive of comments by disenchanted former "Hillbuzzers"--erstwhile devotees of Kevin Dujan's blog, "Hillbuzz."
The people talking here are conservatives, who were outraged and saddened by Kevin Dujan's bizarre behavior. They left "Hillbuzz" on November 7, 2010, after Kevin Dujan attacked a soldier's widow, and conservatives in general, in bafflingly abusive terms, an incident covered here. (Dujan never apologized, but scrubbed the post. However, the post was seen, and archived, all over the Internet, including here at Snarkopolitan.)
They briefly gathered at Snarkopolitan (a liberal blog, btw, but we got along better than relatives at Thanksgiving!) before forming a couple of blogs of their own. This one was called "HoneyTrail."
You've arrived at part two of their attempt to put all the weird happenings at Hillbuzz into order. Part one is here. Who knows why part TWO comes up first, but nothing in this life is neat, I've found.
Just wanted to make clear that these ruminations aren't mine; they are from some of Kevin Dujan's most devoted, and disenchanted, fans.
Well, hikers, time for retrospection to continue here and pull it off the open forum. AFinch has been compiling stories and facts for a bit now. I think she has summarized the details concisely and it will no doubt touch a nerve or two for some of you (as evidenced by the comments on the Open Forum today.)
One of the reason I like to focus on the “honey” part of a bee is because that is the healing and nourishing part given to us humans. The buzzing is nerve wracking and creates chaos as we swat at and run away from buzzing creatures. We swat buzzing bee. We embrace honey as a sweetener, as a wound healer, as internal medicine. Honey, supposedly can never go bad because of its antibacterial properties. It is food already in a predigested state ready to heal.
I think one of our fellow posters said it best in an email to Honey Trail,
“I decided to look up honey/sweet in my concordance. One entry led to Proverbs 16, which contained insights that seemed particularly applicable on many levels. Verse 24 begins “Pleasant words are as an honeycomb…” It struck me that this phrase is both an encouragement and an admonition. The verse concludes with an antidote to the vitriolic venom we face on every side: “…sweet to the soul, and health to the bones.” (Unfortunately user name was not included in email and I have not asked permission to share real identity. You know who you are. Speak up. Thank you.)
“PLEASANT WORDS ARE AS AN HONEYCOMB……..SWEET TO THE SOUL, AND HEALTH TO THE BONES.”
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Integrity1st says:
December 2, 2010 at 7:57 pm
Nicely done, both of you. Truly nicely done.
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Pat P says:
December 2, 2010 at 8:43 pm
Just beautiful, Motley, and a terrific job (expected no less) by AFinch.
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Alabama Buzzer says:
December 2, 2010 at 8:57 pm
I have used Buzz as part of my moniker and my header on my blog; however, I also have used the honeycomb, the beehive, and the Queen bee. So, maybe I am acceptable. After I started the blog, everywhere I went online I saw Buzz this and Buzz that, so it is popular. But, I love the phrase from above and wish that I had thought of it; pleasanat words are a a honeycomb…sweet to the soul, and health to the bones. It is so very fitting.
I tried to help HillBuzz and was somewhat successful, but failed to comprehend what was going on with the USO reaction on the blog’s part, still don’t understand but maybe that is just as well.
What you all are describing happened to me when Hillary was running in the primary. I joined a site, worked very hard for their causes and action items, donated a $100 in money for an ad that never came about. When I questioned about the ad and the money collection, I was asked if I wanted my donation returned and I said yes please. I was credited with the donation as it returned to my credit card. I consider it fortunate that I got my money returned; but that site was also a 527 so I felt sure it could do advertising. That is why I hesitate to send funds, but will work hard if I believe that my help can effect even a small change in the direction of our country.
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yomotley says:
December 2, 2010 at 9:25 pm
Alabama Buzz,
I am sorry for offending you. Thank you for your explanation, although totally unnecessary. I do not want anyone to feel they have to justify their presence here or their approaches to getting involved in saving this country. It was thoughtful of you.
I should explain myself. There are two kinds of buzzing. 1. The buzzing of bees working together for a common goal, which is how you use it. You are a unifier and worker bee. 2. The buzzing of attack on humans that creates chaos with everyone running in different directions. I clarify you and your efforts are the first descriptions. The second kind of buzzing is the “discouraging” kind I was emphasizing in my previous comment.
Were you surprised when you got your money refunded from the site you mentioned? I did not know organizations actually did that. That is a lesson for all of us. If we have donated to a non-profit and it is clear the funds were not used as intended, ask for a refund. Like I said, good info.
I extend, again, “Welcome”
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Alabama Buzzer says:
December 5, 2010 at 6:37 pm
Thank you. No offense taken, just wanted everyone to know where I come from. I feel very welcome here.
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Integrity1st says:
December 2, 2010 at 7:52 pm
EXCELLENT.
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emmajeri1010 says:
December 2, 2010 at 8:11 pm
Thanks to Finch for great work on this. Motley, you accurately describe the effect of “endless buzzing” on our psyche: not a good thing! So turning the focus to the honey itself (and aiming at producing honey, not just buzzing around) is helpful. Thanks.
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Debra says:
December 2, 2010 at 8:23 pm
That was really good! Articulate and concise. Awesome job!
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Ad rem says:
December 2, 2010 at 9:02 pm
Brava AFinch!
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Wraith says:
December 2, 2010 at 9:36 pm
Well, damn. I don’t think I can give Kevin any more of the benefit of the doubt. Eulogy here.
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Ad rem says:
December 2, 2010 at 9:39 pm
That was some nice ‘linky love’ there…..and quite nicely said too.
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yomotley says:
December 2, 2010 at 9:54 pm
Are YOU Weird and Pissed Off??????????
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Wraith says:
December 2, 2010 at 9:57 pm
For certain, I am. And that’s the name of my blog, too. ;D
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yomotley says:
December 2, 2010 at 10:04 pm
Well pleased to meet your other self!
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Integrity1st says:
December 3, 2010 at 1:37 am
That was nicely done Wraith
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AFinch says:
December 3, 2010 at 6:03 am
Thanks Wraith. I agree with your assessment. I see a lot of the Divine in all of this.
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wendy ann says:
December 2, 2010 at 9:47 pm
Thank you – thank you for the explanation of what “went down” at HB…I did not realize the scope of the charade/fraud/deceit that KB had perpetuated!
Anyone else consider that everything he blogged about is an out-right lie?
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sundancecracker says:
December 2, 2010 at 9:55 pm
First most sincere thanks, and warm appreciation, to AFinch and Motley for their considerably restrained, and actually -highly reserved-, synopsis. Thank you for your thoughtful and considerate summation. As was told so long ago, by a far more insightful orator than I, “The truth will always set you free”. Indeed it was the innocent finding of the truth that led to very difficult acceptances of the reality.
We was all duped.
My better half chooses to use the word “fibber” in describing those person(s) holding the character traits of Mr. Dujan. However, I cannot, and I choose not to, afford the same restraint. Kevin Dujan is a liar. Period. Sorry to be so blunt toward those with a vested emotional interest in his welfare, and well being. I wish him no ill will. But honesty with myself dictates such an admission is neccessary. It is indeed a tough pill to swallow, for many including those upon this page held high regard for Mr. Dujan, and on numerous occasions came to his defense. But it is nonetheless a true descriptive. Completely true. He is a liar.
If a true historical account could find only moderate inconsistencies with Kevin’s endeavors and accounts, then perhaps one could describe him as “generous with facts”. However, such a review finds considerable, long term, intentional, and purposefully manipulative lies creating a false narrative and completely false persona. I am of the opinion that Mr. Dujan is indeed a con artist, and manipulates both the media, and his supporters to create a financial benefit through his web site. It appears the end goal is to create an enterprise where he may gain financial benefit from other media type endeavors. A true understanding of motives is actually impossible because the motive lies within the heart of Mr. Dujan himself.
Conclusions can only be drawn by laying out facts, and then allowing the viewer to determine motive.
Fact. Kevin Dujan specifically and intentionally lied about the absence of Chrissythehyphenated from Hillbuzz. He claimed she was on “a family vacation’.
Fact. Despite being a site contributor, and author of articles, to Conservatives 4 Palin (C4P) Kevin did not attend the annual meeting for C4P held in Chicago. His home city. Yet he claims “staunch” advocacy toward a Sarah Palin presidential candidacy.
Fact. Kevin stated on numerous occasions he needed financial support to attend numerous events, and would update with in depth analysis after attendance.
And allow me to cite a more recent and specific example of lying and manipulation.
The following is a time stamp snapshot of Thanksgiving day postings (threads) originating from Kevin Dujan @Hillbuzz:
November 25, 2010 at 8:28 pm- Playing cards thread
November 25, 2010 at 8:15 pm- TSA scanner thread
November 25, 2010 at 8:03 pm- Palin TG thread
November 25, 2010 at 7:03 pm- TG Hatemail thread
November 25, 2010 at 3:50 pm- Michelle Antionette thread
November 25, 2010 at 2:02 pm- Modern Turkey thread
November 25, 2010 at 10:26 am- Rahm Emanuel thread
November 25, 2010 at 4:19 am- Tea Party CEO thread
November 25, 2010 at 3:18 am- Cool Whip Pretzel thread
November 25, 2010 at 2:25 am- Federalism thread
November 25, 2010 at 2:18 am- TG survey question thread
November 25, 2010 at 1:58 am- Cocktail party “Bush” thread
November 25, 2010 at 1:42 am- Christine O’Donnell DWTS thread
November 25, 2010 at 12:55 am- TG Day Open Thread
*(note times are ‘Central’ time zone)
The Alaska Playing Card Thread: http://hillbuzz.org/2010/11/25/alaska-playing-cards-at-thanksgiving-you-betcha/
Included the following Statement at 8:28pm:
“Just finished Thanksgiving dinner here at Buzzquarters. It’s been a very long day, including a round of arts & crafts making turkeys, pilgrims, Indians, and a mess.
Someone surprised me with these Alaskan playing cards, which I love, you betcha.”
Now contrast that with the following thread dated 11/28/10:
http://hillbuzz.org/2010/11/28/my-favorite-thanksgiving-memory-2010/
Which includes the following statement:
“This Thanksgiving, I woke up early and did a volunteer stint peeling potatoes, doing prep work, washing pots and pans, and helping out however else I could to get Thanksgiving dinner ready for the homeless, the elderly, and vets at a center here in Chicago“…..
Really Kevin? Would you care to clarify exactly what the name of this Shelter is called? and where it is located?
…..”After my shift at the shelter, I accepted an invitation to go out to the suburbs to have dinner with radio host Megan Fox and her family, which was delightful.” “When I got there, I peeled more potatoes, did more prep work, washed more pots and pans, and helped out however else I could to get their family dinner ready“….
Really Kevin, again what “shift” is that exactly?
(it continues)
…..”The little kids there did arts and crafts and made all sorts of fun things for the table, including little place cards with all our names on them (turkeys with multi-colored feathers I helped put together on a little kid-run assembly line with Grandma and others helping). It was all so sweet and heart warming…and fun to play with construction paper. It’s been weeks since I did that.”…..
Really Kevin, which was it? Dinner at Buzzquarters, or Dinner with Megan Fox? and those place cards you describe at the Fox residence bear striking similarity to those you share (pictured in your 11/25/10 post) from your Buzzquarters.
1. How did you find time to visit the homeless veterans shelter amid all the site postings that day.? 14 to be exact (listed above).
2. Exactly where is this mysterious shelter that still peels potatoes for a major metropolitian dinner. As opposed to the real world food prep using dehydrated, and pre-processed starches which are the Standard/Norm of the 21st century in Metro-Chicago do-gooding food service.
3. How did you eat dinner with Megan Fox, and Buzzquarters simultaneously? Or was the Fox household the temporary Buzz-HQ, albeit unknown to them.?
If you are gonna lie this frequently, and this blatently, you better have a damn sight better memory.
You see folks, this is just one example on one day of a choice to “create” a false persona, and a false narrative. Why?
Lies !…. LIES ! Not a fibber, a LIAR. Why? Well you decide that for yourself.
I ain’t gonna give this fake character any more of my time than neccessary.
From this manipulative lying, creationary agenda building, and false persona, somehow God chose to create something good. Something special. Something frilliant. Something called HoneyTrail; and he led us all here to join eachother in respect, goodwill, and decency. For that I am grateful beyond words.
And for Kevin?……. Well, lets just say……. “Karma’s a b**ch” dude. !!
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yomotley says:
December 2, 2010 at 10:17 pm
OK. Let me get this right. He had two separate posts on what he did for Thanksgiving and they were different scenarios? I would have never believed anyone could be that stupid if I had not seen the cached pages.
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Debra says:
December 2, 2010 at 10:44 pm
Not defending him, mind you, but is it possible he called an early thanksgiving a “dinner” and a later one “dinner” as well?
I would still call it a Thanksgiving dinner if it was lunchtime, because Thanksgiving lunch just doesn’t sound right.
He could have eaten earlier in the day with Fox, then went to Buzzquarters for a later dinner. I still think he’s a liar though. I just don’t base it on the two thanksgiving dinners.
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yomotley says:
December 2, 2010 at 10:51 pm
I thought the same thing. It is the art and crafts that hang him.
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Debra says:
December 2, 2010 at 10:58 pm
I don’t understand how the arts and crafts mention outs him!?! I feel like this is a math problem and I’m the only one who can’t see the answer.
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violet says:
December 2, 2010 at 11:57 pm
I’m not getting it either.
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AFinch says:
December 3, 2010 at 5:26 am
Then where did the arts and crafts take place? Both places? Because the ones he descibes doing at the Fox residence sound a lot like the ones he posted a photo of having completed at Buzzquarters.
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violet says:
December 3, 2010 at 12:26 pm
First off, I’m NOT defending Kevin, so please don’t anyone accuse me of it. However, when I reread what he wrote on Nov. 25, and compared it with what he wrote on the 28th, I have to admit that I don’t see the inconsistency, so I must be missing what everyone else is seeing.
On the 25th he said only that it had been a “very long day” and that among the activities of the day had been “a round of arts & crafts making turkeys, pilgrims, Indians,” etc. (shown in the accompanying photograph). He didn’t say where the arts and crafts session had taken place, only that it had been part of “a very long day.”
And yes, he mentioned having Thanksgiving dinner at two different locations, but if he consumed two Thanksgiving dinners, he’s not the first one to do so. Lots of people ingest multiple large meals on holidays if they have more than one set of friends or relatives they want to celebrate with. (Those of you who are not from the midwest should realize that midwesterners often use the word “dinner” for what non-midwesterners call “lunch.”) As Debra pointed out, Kevin could have had dinner in the early afternoon with the Fox family, as he says he did, and had another dinner later in the day (the “Alaska Playing Card” post was at 8:28 p.m., after all). He never claimed that the construction paper turkeys in the photograph were made at “buzzquarters” (whatever that is).
As for the many different threads Kevin posted on the 25th, I admit that it seems unlikely that he had time to write so much when he was so busy peeling potatoes, visiting people, making paper turkeys, and so on. However, Kevin DOES seem to be able to write very quickly; and as we all know, he never proofreads anything, which saves a lot of time. He uses a mobile device to write and post, so he could conceivably have done all the things he said he did and still have found time to post stuff on HB in between. If it’s true, as some say, that he is bipolar, then on Thanksgiving he was having a manic episode. During a manic episode one has seemingly limitless energy and can accomplish a ridiculous amount of stuff without running out of steam.
I’m NOT saying this is what happened — who knows what really happened?? — only that it could have happened, and that this particular incident is not proof positive of deliberate dishonesty.
Of course there may be something (or many things) that I am missing, and I am willing to be set straight.
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AliRose says:
December 3, 2010 at 12:39 pm
I think, at this point, that “buzzquarters” is probably wherever Kevin happens to be at the moment, since, as you point out, he writes a lot from his phone, on the go. There are a lot of possiblities…who knows. You make some very good points. I think it’s best not to draw absolute conclusions without concrete evidence.
For me, it doesn’t really matter, so I try not to think about it too much. I left HB completely and entirely because of the USO thread. It was rude and disrespectful and the follow-up “explanation” was really just a big FU. I don’t like “guilt trips” in politics and I don’t want them in my personal life, either. I don’t feel bad about feeling betrayed or, perhaps more accurately, let-down/disappointed.
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emmajeri1010 says:
December 2, 2010 at 10:22 pm
I agree. Not a fibber. A liar.
Being deceived is always nasty; but waking up to the deception and walking away is always a good thing. Not easy or pleasant, but good.
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WeeWeed says:
December 2, 2010 at 11:03 pm
Well, I take comfort in the fact that I was not alone. Right now, while it occurs to moi, if y’all are FB friends with either of the evil twins you might wanna “unfriend” them. But it was fun for a little while….I, too, found my “voice,” to rant and rage and say what flyover America really is thinking, and for that I am grateful. The ground reports written by all of us were beyond great and I wouldn’t have missed it. “Meeting” all of you was like goin’ to a family reunion!! Loved it, and love all of you, all of your writings, poems, videos – wouldn’t have missed it. I did owe HB for giving me a place to learn to use my voice, but I paid for that. And have the paypal receipts to prove it. In Kevin Dujan’s name, I might add. That said, don’t mess with Texas. Thatisall.
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violet says:
December 2, 2010 at 11:58 pm
I apologize if this is a stupid question, but can anyone tell me if Sebastian, Robbie, Panda, and Joaquin are real people? Kevin used to talk about them all the time, although he hasn’t mentioned them lately (as far as I know). Do they actually exist?
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AliRose says:
December 3, 2010 at 12:23 am
My take on things may be a little bit different than some others. But…I’ve pretty much always thought that most, if not all, of the posts were written by one person. I thought that was part of the whole snark of the website. I do believe that the others exist and even wrote for the blog at some point, but I’ve always sort of taken it to be him writing about his friends’ perspectives. (as long as I’ve been reading, anyway)
Here’s what I do know. I googled PattyMelt once, just out of curiosity and found a post that she had left on another site (in memory of a gay man who had committed suicide). In that post she talks about being from Mineral City and having a gay son, Robby. That post was from 2003.
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Bijou says:
December 3, 2010 at 12:30 am
violet, it’s my considered opinion that they are completely fictitious.
I think they are ‘characters’ loosely based on acquaintances, or composites of same, who were thrown into the mix to make it seem more interesting.
Nobody has ever seen any of ‘them’ or communicated with them, including Chrissy, who had access to pretty much everything.
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Integrity1st says:
December 3, 2010 at 2:20 am
Chrissy, did you ever talk to him on the phone or have a phone number for him?
Others, does anybody know of ANYONE who actually met him, and that would certainly be interesting as it related to the DC trip.
Also, I’d like to emphasize, because it stands so much to her credit, Chrissy did not leave because of K being rude to her when she was “on vacation”. She did so because of how he hurt her friends. At that time she was simply not contributing or visiting under protest waiting for K to see the light, and for an apology. She was ready to give him the benefit of the doubt that he would come around and do the right thing, and had always planned to return . . . until the USO thread, and then the rest of the rumblings. Then came the point where she knew she would never go back, and sadly for her, she went through her stuff well before this wonderful and cathargic site started and began ‘treating’ our PTSS. Class v. Crass
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angelaisms says:
December 3, 2010 at 3:10 am
To be fair, Chrissy did have me and FtN. We three kinda formed our own little support group through emails and a couple of phone calls.
And to be clear, Chrissy’s hiatus began after she posted my Katy Perry spoof. She posted that and got a world-class ass-chewing from K about it; when she told him about the Kumquat project in an attempt to make him see that I was not Satan incarnate, he responded 2 days later with that “Breaking the Fourth Wall” post in which he made fun of FtN and compared me to the Taliban.
Speaking of Project Kumquat, I’m at a loss as for what to do with it. So many people sent in cards, and they’re wonderful and lovely, and a couple people even sent money to help with postage — but do we still want to send it? Please advise.
The day before the “Fourth Wall” post went up I had a conversation with Chrissy about the email she’d sent to K detailing project Kumquat et al, and we both agreed that we had a really good feeling about the course of action she had chosen. The next day the poo hit the fan, and I began to question my intuition and sanity. But I think that, all told, it was a good thing that we triggered — in the same way that President Obama is better, in the long run, for the United States than President McCain would have been. Things in our country were reaching a tipping point no matter what, and a McCain presidency would not have opened our eyes to that in such a jaw-dropping manner as Obama’s has. We would have remained asleep. Likewise, we had been spending considerable portions of our time in the living room of a house that was, unbeknownst to us, made, to a significant extent, of cards. Both seemingly bad events gave us time to get out while we could, and turned out to be blessings in disguise.
And now there is a new Burn Notice on my DVR, and I promised my son a date on the couch with popcorn. And after that, I will put him to bed and then prolly listen to a Glenn Beck podcast while getting myself ready for World of Warcraft: Cataclysm (yes, I’m one of those people), coming on Tuesday. I am excited.
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WeeWeed says:
December 3, 2010 at 6:40 am
I personally don’t want the cards I sent to go to him as they have my actual name and address on them. No need in giving him some more names, etc. to blast all over the internet. My two can go in the trash.
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FranklytheNut says:
December 3, 2010 at 9:31 am
Good thinking about the real names and addresses, even for those posters still currently in “favor.” Giving him our real identities would be like having someone hold a gun on you, and giving him bullets so he won’t run out.
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Patriot Dreamer says:
December 3, 2010 at 9:39 am
You know, I procrastinated sending my cards to Chrissy. I bought them, filled them out, even put postage on them, but did not mail them. Now I think that my procrastination has worked out for the best.
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Bijou says:
December 3, 2010 at 9:47 am
angelaisms, please destroy the card I sent.
It should be easy to spot because it’s from Canada.
Thanks.
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EZBurns says:
December 3, 2010 at 10:02 am
Ya know, I almost participated and something inside me rebelled. Maybe I was ‘on’ to it all earlier, I just remember feeling uncomfortable with the idea.
I think its one thing to have a board that is balanced and equal and another to have a board that is a cult of personality.
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Thomas Hooker says:
December 3, 2010 at 11:39 am
Originally I was in favor of completing the project if Angelaisms was willing – the cards were sent with love and that is valuable in and of itself. But I certainly understand people’s concerns about too much personal information. If it wouldn’t be too much work, would anyone like or object to an online album of the postcard pictures? It seems a shame to simply throw some out. It was the community we enjoyed and I would love to see to see the pictures people contributed. The quotes could even be added without personal info, although that would be a lot more work. Any interest?
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Thomas Hooker says:
December 3, 2010 at 11:42 am
I am not trying to make work for Angelaisms – she could send me the packet and I would be willing to scan and type.
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WeeWeed says:
December 3, 2010 at 11:42 am
That would be fun to look at, alright – and the quotes would be great. And while he/she spies on us he/she can see what “they” missed.
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Ad rem says:
December 3, 2010 at 12:18 pm
TH…
That’s an excellent idea! I arrived on the scene after all this went down, so I’m just now starting to understand what the Kumquat Project was all about.
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Integrity1st says:
December 3, 2010 at 3:40 pm
Totally LOVE the idea TH. I procratinated, but also was going to send it to be ‘added’ to the pack with my special edition of Brokeback Mountain that I knew to be his favorite (along with some other goodies for Thanks giveing. He knew what I was up to, and yet still, when I asked him for accountability for the USO thread, I got back the F/U “we don’t want you to even read us”.
I still consider sending the DVD, which he told me he didn’t have, and would love. I figure it would be appreciated by him whether he cares for me or not, and I have no special appreciation for it. Any thoughts?
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yomotley says:
December 3, 2010 at 11:14 pm
Well, to do so sort of reminds me of the wife that has bruises from the beating her husband gave her last week but gives Brutus the anniversary card she picked out a few weeks earlier — and signs it, “You are the best”
I don’t approve or object. It is not my personal business. I did not send a card.
That is just my take after reading all this.
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yomotley says:
December 3, 2010 at 11:17 pm
“It was the community we enjoyed ”
In light of this, perhaps the cards should be readdressed to the “community”
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Integrity1st says:
December 3, 2010 at 11:27 pm
YO Motley. I hear ya, but I’m from the school of thought that leans towards he’s lonely and wounded – - – and it’s Christmas. And I have no bruises because I came out all the better from the battle – you guys.
And, I don’t care about the movie, and it means something to him, but it all doesn’t really matter if you knew how bad I am at getting things in the mail!!!
Still, your comments were most befitting.
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yomotley says:
December 4, 2010 at 1:27 am
Integrity, He won’t be all alone for Christmas. He has a new boyfriend that supposedly is a young republican and the son of a longtime HB poster to the comments.
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CAS says:
December 3, 2010 at 3:48 pm
I’d appreciate it if you tossed my card, too. It’s of the Civic Theater in Akron.
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AliRose says:
December 3, 2010 at 3:51 pm
At this, I totally have to confess that I didn’t get in on the kumquat thing either, so I made him my own gift. Best description…it’s a wine bottle painted with stained glass paints, then a string of mini Christas lights inside. It says Buzz Quarters on it, so I’m still planning to send it…some day. I never did get his address, though…hmmmm.
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emmajeri1010 says:
December 3, 2010 at 6:06 pm
There’s no reason to send mine, since I no longer respect him. My real name and address was on them as well. If you could pull all the quotes that were provided, that might be worth doing! Because those speak from the heart of a bunch of neat American people, and that still stands.
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maryohsocontrary says:
December 3, 2010 at 9:37 pm
Hi Angela! For my part (actually Mary Quite-Contrary’s) I’d say publishing the quotes; but scrubbbing all the personal info (just using our screen names).
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MRM says:
December 26, 2010 at 2:18 pm
wow – I’m late to this party, but SOOOO happy to find you all, thanks to Chrissy!! (thanks Chrissy!!)
Angela, you can certainly pitch my postcard!
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AFinch says:
December 3, 2010 at 5:31 am
I met Kevin (or at least someone purporting to be Kevin) in Chicago on two occasions. I believe others met him when he was in DC for the Restoring Honor rally. I have never met any of the other “boyz” or had direct correspondence with anyone who has.
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AliRose says:
December 3, 2010 at 9:57 am
Someone mentioned meeting him in DC in one of the earlier threads, but I can’t recall who.
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AFinch says:
December 3, 2010 at 10:09 am
YTZ and I believe Hxbuff
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zmalfoy says:
December 3, 2010 at 1:32 pm
I met him in DC. Got his card and everything. Helped him navigate the metro to get back to his hotel.
Never had any further personal connection, outside of commenting.
As for my postcard (Sent late do to procrastiation and fluff-headedness). . . y’all can post the picture and the quotes, if you wish, but keep the personal info out of it. It’s a nice pic of the cherry blossoms. . .
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Integrity1st says:
December 3, 2010 at 3:42 pm
I’m fascinated to learn so many actually met him. I’ve heard so much of last minute no shows!
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AliRose says:
December 3, 2010 at 11:32 pm
Out of curiosity…where did you meet him after the rally?
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zmalfoy says:
December 5, 2010 at 9:07 pm
@ AliRose,
At a Potbelly’s nearish to the Mall
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Integrity1st says:
December 3, 2010 at 2:05 am
SD never ceases to amaze me but I found myself as angry and disgusted as him, and cracking up at the thoroughness, and then vasilating between con artist, or desparate, lonely, Sybil anyone? And, I still don’t completely rule out that he was a plant to win over the conservatives to push the gay agenda without us seeing it coming out of respect for him. (respect? doesn’t fit anymore) But how odd is it in the scheme of things, that first the gavatars which definately made recognition for the “after blog”, AND how’s about that idea for us all starting a blog, which resulted in this from my, not so often trips to the other side: (perhaps a comment with this link on it from our host(s)?)
Grail Guardian
http://insightanalytical.wordpress.com/
zmalfoy
http://americanslytherin.wordpress.com/
saintseester
http://saintseestersays.saintseester.com/
dginga
http://dginga.wordpress.com/
gcbn42
http://gcbn42.wordpress.com/
Adell Nuelander
http://bustedhalo1.wordpress.com/2010/11/20/adell-neulander/#comments
Lola LB
http://www.lolajl.net/blog/
zmalfoy
http://americanslytherin.wordpress.com/
But consider this: if he was all con man, or many combinations of the above, why did he implode his own site? That part makes me think the multiple personality thing, and if that’s the case, I would have empathy over anger for him.
At any rate, the guy sure could write, and was definately able to think and say things Repubs should be doing. And then his cleverness of action ideas was also well above average.
and, confession. I didn’t really see the decline, but maybe because in the weeks leading up to the election, I was so busy campaigning my quick stop ins were far less than anything they had been. Even then, I would only get a few posts in, and had to move on.
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AFinch says:
December 3, 2010 at 5:38 am
The self-implosion is difficult to explain if you presume he is behaving ethically or rationally. I suspect it is nothing more than a tool to generate a new crop of readers/donors. We learned from others here who were around for the self-implosion that occurred in the summer of 2009, that this has happened before. He alienates long-time readers who had, perhaps, begun to question the inconsistentcies, so that when a new crop comes in (from a well-received letter to GWB or a mention from Rush) those who have seen it before are not around to warn the new, unsuspecting group and the cycle continues.
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EZBurns says:
December 3, 2010 at 8:32 am
However, if you hang out on other blogs, THEY know the history and will fill you in rapidly. Like on Ace… I was surprised at those who were able to say “Oh! Hillbuzz…he’s the guy that flakes out. Promises but doesn’t deliver” etc..
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Ad rem says:
December 3, 2010 at 12:23 pm
Or…..he’s like the guy who after a long engagement panics as the wedding date draws near. He runs off to the next girl who doesn’t know the twists and turns, and the whole thing starts anew.
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Bijou says:
December 3, 2010 at 1:26 pm
Ad rem, that’s a very good analogy.
Just start over with a ‘clean slate’…with no bothersome accountability.
Lather…rinse…repeat…
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zmalfoy says:
December 3, 2010 at 7:31 am
. . .
I had wondered where everyone went. . .
And I’d started noticing oddities . . .
And that USO post really threw me . . .
I trust you all to give me a moment?
(I’m so glad you found me, but I kinda feel like I’ve lost a dear friend. Only, he never existed. Even though I met him. Golly, what a brain $%^& . . .)
Thank you, AliRose, for finding me. *sigh* Glad to see you all.
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yomotley says:
December 3, 2010 at 7:53 am
Welcome. It IS good to “see” you!
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AFinch says:
December 3, 2010 at 7:53 am
Welcome Z. Take as much time as you need. The Hello World thread is probably the best place to start.
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Ad rem says:
December 3, 2010 at 12:30 pm
Welcome zmalfoy!
I figure it’s like reading a really good book….one that you totally get into. You love the character(s) and hate to put it down. Then, you get to the last page and the ending doesn’t make sense. You have to remind yourself it was after all… ‘Fiction’.
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zmalfoy says:
December 3, 2010 at 1:35 pm
Yeah, yeah, that’s exactly how it feels. That sorta echoey hollow feeling the chest, but not as much as if . . .
gah! Clearly, you know what I mean. . .
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ZurichMike says:
December 3, 2010 at 9:38 am
Oddly, I just went to the HB site (posting is way down, and generally it’s multiple posts by a few). But my posting rights have not been revoked (put in a test message).
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yomotley says:
December 3, 2010 at 9:48 am
See what happens if you put on Sundances Dec 1st article link?
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wendy ann says:
December 3, 2010 at 10:23 am
hahaha (evil laugh) – I like how your mind works!!!
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Ad rem says:
December 3, 2010 at 12:31 pm
Only 18 people on the OT at HB……a new low.
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Ad rem says:
December 3, 2010 at 4:44 pm
Mike…
The Swiss are supposed to be neutral…right?
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Bijou says:
December 3, 2010 at 10:22 am
I just looked in over ‘there’ and it’s creepy.
He’s got yet another long item about gays in movies, ‘How realistic are young gay men when portrayed in movies?’ He’s asking for people’s comments on behalf of a ‘friend’ who is doing a project for school. (Seriously!)
It also provides a convenient oportunity for yet another rant about how society has persecuted gays.
So, to avoid having people feel sorry for him at Christmas, he says he volunteers “doing AIDS meals for wheels”. This is a blatant lie, sort of like the Thanksgiving dual dinner/craft sessions, as Sundance detailed. Anybody who has ever had dealings with the organization he is referring to knows it is called ‘Meals ON Wheels’, which is available for everybody. There is no such thing as an ‘AIDS’ version.
He also seems to be foreshadowing that he will be ‘away’. He says he has a new boyfriend. I kid you not. And miracle of miracles, he’s a conservative Palin supporter. So… if he disappears, there’s no reason to worry…
“because I am having a great time and enjoying life and being happy…somewhere with someone I’m falling for…instead of a day where the Left has beaten me down so badly that I just didn’t want to live anymore.”
I actually feel sorry for those new suckers over there. I haven’t seen Aussie around for days. I wonder if she has finally caught on.
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wendy ann says:
December 3, 2010 at 10:27 am
great merciful Zeus, he’s a nutter …always ranting on – ad nauseam – about the persecution from the Left..blah blah blah!!
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EZBurns says:
December 3, 2010 at 10:32 am
I don’t think he’s Machiavellian and plotting/planning as much as he is talented, has grand ideas, an exaggerated sense of self-importance coupled with him being a bit of a flake that lacks consistency and focus. I would say he believes most of what he posts, embroiders stories and truths a lot and yeah, takes money and doesn’t use it as he promised.
IOW, it’s not so much a scheme as it is a set of repeating behaviors.
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Debra says:
December 3, 2010 at 10:55 am
In total agreement – I don’t really think he’s a con person, necessarily. I see him as someone who actually thinks he’ll use the money the way he says he will, then life happens and he uses it for y instead of x. I think he’s a flake, a lying flake, but a flake nonetheless. I could be wrong, and this could be me just trying to give him the benefit of the doubt as I’d rather him be a flake than a con-man.
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Debra says:
December 3, 2010 at 11:12 am
Came back to add:
I know three people like this in real life.
They can’t admit they were wrong and don’t take kindly to someone correcting them.
Flakey – they don’t deliver what they promised, because of a short attention span or a tendancy to be a perfectionist – the kind that don’t start something if it can’t be absolutely perfect.
Lying -they hate it if someone lies to them, but won’t hesitate to lie if it’s in their best interests.
He totally could be a con-man, not saying that he isn’t for sure, I just know of people in real life who exhibit the same behaviors and they are not con people, just flawed individuals (as we all are). But in my case they are my family, and I’m not about to distance myself from them. I just call them on it and let them be mad and then they eventually get over it. I would have been willing to extend the same to K but Keverly wouldn’t leave me the heck alone!
Again, he’s a definitely a liar, I’m just not sold on the con part.
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violet says:
December 3, 2010 at 12:58 pm
Thanks for saying this, Debra. I think you’re right. A con artist knows exactly what he is doing, whereas the delusional person actually believes his own lies. A con man is evil; a delusional man is merely pathetic and pitiable.
And I think we all know people who always say they are going to do something and then almost never follow through. Being flaky and unreliable, even untrustworthy, does not by itself make one a con artist.
As always, if I am wrong, I am ready to be corrected. Thanks, everyone, for your patience and forbearance.
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FranklytheNut says:
December 3, 2010 at 11:12 am
I’ve worked with prisoners and parolees. We have had parolees live in our home, including more than one con man. A con man’s success lives or dies on the credibility of his con. A true con man, dedicated to his con, doesn’t generally blow up his own scam.
This self-destruct mechanism in play at HB–which has happened more than once–seems to indicate that KD is NOT a “normal” con man, but there is something else wrong there…deeper, more destructive, and not really in his control. This latest wound was ENTIRELY self-inflicted. Angelaisms and I both contacted him privately. When he lashed out at us, privately, we both kept it private. Chrissy’s efforts with him over us were also private. In fact, I didn’t find out that I was the straw that broke her camel’s back until a couple of weeks ago. She was so private, she didn’t tell me when it was about me.
It was Kevin that made the whole thing public, from the initial diatribe against the private communications from angelaisms and me, to the Chrissy “vacation”. Then came the nuclear creme de la creme of the USO post, and all that radioactive fallout. If he is a true, dedicated, capable con man, it was totally counterproductive to blow up a very successful little enterprise. But he did. I think I think he couldn’t help himself, and, after trying to build things back up again for awhile, he will do shoot his own foot again in the future…then blame somebody new for persecuting him and trying to bring him down.
At least he won’t have had OUR names and addresses handed to him as a gift!
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Ad rem says:
December 3, 2010 at 12:37 pm
FtN…
I can tell you know how to keep things private….the ski mask gives it away.
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AFinch says:
December 3, 2010 at 11:10 am
I guess I fail to appreciate the difference between a set of repeating behaviors executed with the intent of gaining trust and depriving people of their money and a con or a scheme.
If he were just a flake, then why the lies, why the scrubbing of comments and posts, why the intense control over comments and why the lashing out in anger when called on his flakiness? Where one might see a lying flake, I see a flaky con man. Six of one, half dozen of another.
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FranklytheNut says:
December 3, 2010 at 11:26 am
The “end result” to you may be the same in the sense of being scammed, but it was assuredly NOT to KD and HB. A con man without some inner compulsion to go ballistic on his own scam would’ve kept it going for as long as possible, adapting the con to protect against threat of exposure, pushing it forward, roping in those threatening to stray. He did everything backwards, exposing himself, kicking people out who were inclined to be on his side. There is a pathology there, IMO, separate and distinct from any actual scamming going on.
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AFinch says:
December 3, 2010 at 11:38 am
Well, I never said he was a GOOD con man (though he got me).
I totally get where both you and Debra are coming from. I do think there are some mixed motivations/pathologies at work–all of which lead me to the conclusion that he cannot be trusted and should not be placed in a position of confidence.
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FranklytheNut says:
December 3, 2010 at 11:48 am
A con man is all about the success of his con–whether he’s trying to get money, popularity, power, or something else entirely. With HB, I think there was a lot of identity and self-esteem wrapped up in the site’s success and growth, which is why the deliberate sabotage of his own project seems difficult-to-impossible to comprehend unless there’s something actually WRONG there. Aside from a lack of conscience and amorality, of course!
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MRM says:
December 26, 2010 at 2:32 pm
FtN, I agree with you re the “identity and self-esteem” and, I might add, ego – tied up in Hillbuzz, which I think helps explain some of KD’s reaction to Chrissy posting Angelaism’s video and Sundance’s brilliant piece and KD having his self-destructive meltdown shortly after. Maybe some jealousy… he was suddenly sharing the limelight not only with Chrissy, but now with others who were getting rave reviews as well.
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Debra says:
December 3, 2010 at 11:31 am
I don’t want to get into details, but let’s just say I have seen this kind of behavior with someone I love.
Don’t want to look bad? Then leave out huge chunks of a story so that the listener has to be very inquisitive or discerning to know the other side – I equate this to scrubbing the site – he knows that it made him look bad, but he can’t own up to it and admit it.
Lashing out in anger? I see that with my loved one too. It’s a pride thing – he lacks humility.
Maybe part of why I see it differently, is because I used to be ALOT like him (learned it from my loved one!)
I lied, sometimes for no reason at all.
I was always right, I could never admit I was wrong, and any gentle correction would get me to blow up because of my pride.
I was never flakey, that part isn’t me so much, but those other two things, totally were me.
This may sound cheesy, but meeting Jesus was the way I turned it around. I became humble, because meeting Him was very, very humbling.
Lying was one of the first sins I got victory over. I just don’t lie. And if I do some sort of unintentional lying, I admit it right away. But intentional lying, nope, I just don’t go there anymore.
That’s just my take on it.
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emmajeri1010 says:
December 3, 2010 at 6:16 pm
Isn’t it interesting how actually meeting Jesus teaches us that humility and reality ARE going to hand in hand, if we are willing!? Thanks for those comments. Humility takes a lot of stress out of life. Much less hiding and pretending required.
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wendy ann says:
December 3, 2010 at 1:29 pm
Con man if ever there was one…..
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Integrity1st says:
December 3, 2010 at 4:05 pm
LOL, with each post I read, I’m ready to respond that I “can see that being the case”, and then the same with the next one with a whole new theory. Each one well substantiated and articulated. Then I get to Finch’s, and the ending just cracks me up. Still, I conclude that the true con does not blow himself up, and that K is a very talented, but sick and wounded person.
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CAS says:
December 3, 2010 at 4:25 pm
Same here.
Some folks have posited that K may one or more of the HB crew rolled into one person. So suppose his stories of childhood abuse are true, but also that he is Sebastian(?) who was treated so abominably by his mother. Or that Panda is wishful thinking, the accepted gay son that he wants to be. That would go a long way toward explaining his self-destructive behavior to me.
(I need to rationalize like that.)
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Integrity1st says:
December 3, 2010 at 10:37 pm
See Cas, if that’s the case, which could very well be, he is neither responsible for his pain or his various personas and I have much desire to pray for him and be more understanding. If a con, whole different story, but I just don’t see a con blowing up a good thing, and he had a good thing NOT just with our devotion and support, but with his growing recognition. The timing of it almost seems to have hit a cresendo (is that the right word?)
Still, Finch is right on spot in warning people to proceed with caution. We can not just walk away and let others learn the way we did where it hurt so many.
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MaryJane says:
December 4, 2010 at 12:32 am
For a long time I’ve thought Sebastian Gray is the same person as Kevin DuJan. I just went back and re-read one of Sebastian’s posts and noticed that it is a very similar in style to Kevin’s posts.http://hillbuzz.org/2009/06/10/how-to-write-to-corporate-america-by-sebastian-gray-for-gray-matters/
As for Panda – did not Kevin and Panda go see Sarah Palin together when she was in that convention center in Illinois? And Kevin went on and on about the helpful nice lady of the convention center and how we all had to send her a postcard?
I do not remember him ever posting the promised report on SP’s speech.
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yomotley says:
December 3, 2010 at 11:24 pm
A good con man does not blow himself or cover up. Yeah, but he knows when the con is up and gets out of Dodge. Appears his version was to kick everyone out of Dodge instead of running.
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GracieD says:
December 3, 2010 at 12:08 pm
“IOW, it’s not so much a scheme as it is a set of repeating behaviors.”
You may be onto something EZ. I have a few friends who call themselves “a bit flaky”. I dearly love my friends, and am very loyal to them, the people who are themselves “flaky” do not mean to be that way. That is just their personality. As my grandmother used to say…it takes all kinds. That said, I have become more self-protective, and that is difficult for me, as I tend to be a trusting person. I am a WYSIWYG person, as most Cajuns are. There is not much that I will not do to help those in need if it is within my power. I am praying for Kevin, that he finds his spiritual center. He is a talented writer who could go far should he choose to do so.
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FranklytheNut says:
December 3, 2010 at 10:35 am
You can think it’s malicious of me if you want, and I probably shouldn’t admit it in such a public forum, but I hope Aussie HAS caught on…because this means she knows now that she made a flaming donkey of herself, and all in defense of a liar and his lies. If I’d done that, and on such an international grand scale, too, I’d lie low for awhile myself.
Thanks for answering my question. I wanted to see, after her crusade on honeytrails, to see what she went back to say at HB. When I didn’t see her, I thought I was just missing her posts. Apparently not.
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WeeWeed says:
December 3, 2010 at 10:46 am
Back after the blowup I’d go over there and read, sometimes post a line or two, but she had said she’d be going on a 2 week cruise soon, with no internet, blah, blah – so she may be back.
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FranklytheNut says:
December 3, 2010 at 10:48 am
As long as she’s not “back” on my back, more power to her!
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Integrity1st says:
December 3, 2010 at 4:11 pm
Frankley – - – I love saying that as part of my rant, by the way, I did not see what Aussie did to you and was privy to only a tiny of what she said here, so bear with me.
Knowing that ALL of us were duped and betrayed, etc., isn’t it conceivable that some still are and are simply being loyal to someone we all saw ourselves as loyal to – - – and then we woke up.
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sundancecracker says:
December 3, 2010 at 4:18 pm
In the instance of Aussies visit here… “loyalty” ? Unfortunately not.
For everyone else. Perhaps, and yes, it would only make sense.
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FranklytheNut says:
December 3, 2010 at 5:07 pm
I had very few interactions with Aussie on HB, and only one that I remember definitely. It was very pleasant, but I can’t imagine that it had any lasting impact on her, one way or another. Then, on the USO thread, when I made my comments and housemom recognized me as former-poster “Susan,” Bev decided that I must be the hated Susan Traversy and went on the warpath, Aussie faithfully toddling along in Bev’s footprints.
So, I took my “nasty troll” self and went away. Aussie’s flameout here was the next interchange I had with her, and occurred after angelaisms said I was not a troll, and housemom obviously recognized me. I was totally taken aback by what happened here, since it took her animosity to a whole new level, as far as I could see.
And on the basis of what? Some mildly-critical comments I made about St. Kevin, that’s all. If my tepid little critique called down THAT ball of fire from the heavens, then the things that have been said here since will, if she ever reads them, just plain incinerate her stays. Consider that my warning to any sympathetic heart who wants to act as an intermediary and intercessor for peace.
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Integrity1st says:
December 3, 2010 at 5:34 pm
I hear ya Frankley. And, YOU KNOW how much I appreciate and admire you, and respect your thoughts (I hope). Still think it is a BIG misunderstanding. When I reviewed the USO thread, Aussie was definately in a state of confusion ranging from it definately is NOT Kevin to defending him, etc. etc. We were all confused and unsure, she may have just not figured it out when we did because we were behind the scenes getting smacked by Kevin, thus saw his true colors. And, I would add, that while I knew what he had done to you, C and A – - – then me, I thought that was all he smashed and isolated. Never until I landed here did I ever dream there was a widespread assault and exodus – - – some getting it much after we were long gone. I’m just saying.
And, I am hardpressed to differ from your and SD’s take. Mine is just that a little more confusion is factored in to the defense. Again, I’m thinking what went on here that I don’t know about might be telling of something different than I’m thinking. On the USO thread there was much confusion, and Aussie was among those confused.
Hope you don’t mind my trying to give the benefit of the doubt. LOL there was a time you accused me of being a troll you know – - – seriously, LOL.
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violet says:
December 3, 2010 at 1:04 pm
Is Aussie the one with the white cat in her avatar?
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Patriot Dreamer says:
December 3, 2010 at 1:48 pm
Yes. Sometimes she used the white cat avatar. Sometimes she used of pic of herself. Sometimes she would use the screen name “Maggie”.
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Ad rem says:
December 3, 2010 at 4:55 pm
Sorry……I can’t past the image of the flaming donkey! ;-D
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FranklytheNut says:
December 3, 2010 at 5:48 pm
1. If Aussie was “confused” here, she was concealing it. With enormous flair, too, I might add.
2. Are you sure I’m the one who called you a “troll”? I have no memory of ever calling anyone that in my life…except for misbehaving grandchildren, and that was never in print, or for public consumption, either!
3. What was it about? I don’t know who are the trolls and who aren’t, and it’s hard to imagine me caring one way or the other, even if I DID know. I have a bad memory, I’ll admit, so am not issuing a blanket denial, but for me to have done that would be so out of character for me I can’t even fathom it. To do something like that, I would have to have been smoking crack.
4. I don’t smoke crack! LOL
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FranklytheNut says:
December 3, 2010 at 6:18 pm
Not only that, if your memory is better than mine (and it would be hard for it to be worse!!), and I’m the one who seriously called you a troll, let me offer my most humble apologies for such an egregious act of rudeness. I could not possibly offer either an explanation or an excuse for behaving like that.
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Integrity1st says:
December 3, 2010 at 10:20 pm
Frankley, (grin), my memory happens to be one of my few redeeming qualities, but please know I am way over it. I was always fearful of being called one because there were certain things if you didn’t know them from reading past situations or posts, you sounded like one if you asked a question you were already supposed to know the answer to. And well, let’s face it. I don’t know that much about any particular topic of which so many are well versed. Anyway, it was not an attack, it was simply a oneliner questioning if I might be. We moved way past there and I always tried to reinforce I wasn’t a troll when I was dialoguing with you and it seems to have worked LOL.
But it’s kinda related in that things can be taken differently than intended or said differently than meant, and the USO day was, to say the least, confusing, alarming, and everyone was on the defense. Still, at the end of the day, we all wanted to see an explanation, and didn’t. And since I posted a lot of responses to people that day, and NONE of them got posted, we really don’t even know if we got the whole context of the comments.
And for the record, in all my comments that didn’t get posted, they were not offensive to Kevin, but rather were chastizing buzzers who were NOT standing up to what I felt inappropriate behavior. I was still giving Kevin the benefit of the doubt, so Kevin really had no reason to block them from his perspective.
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FranklytheNut says:
December 3, 2010 at 10:28 pm
In the absence of context and an actual quote, my guess was that I was either being sarcastic, or attempting something humorous, with all the success of a pregnant pole vaulter. Sarcasm and bad jokes I can certainly believe about myself. Seriously calling a stranger perjorative names, not so much. Whatever–I’m glad you’re OK now and at this point, the only opinion I remember having about you was being shocked to find out Winston Churchill was a GIRL!!! LOL
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Integrity1st says:
December 3, 2010 at 10:47 pm
yea, about that gender thing. what to do? I feel like the “voice” doesn’t match the pic, but wanted the aura. any thoughts of what I should do. I’ve got a precious child, dog, cats. ya know, USUALLY I only remember the avatar and don’t look at the name until I go to address them, but, in your case, I don’t even know your avatar because I love the story of your picking that name, and I love saying Frankley as in addressing you, and saying Frankley.
Frankley, I think it’s the Scarlett O’Hara in me.
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FranklytheNut says:
December 3, 2010 at 10:57 pm
No, Winston is fine, now that I know who “he” is! As far as not recognizing my avatar, you’re probably confusing it with all the OTHER orange ski-masked bank robbers, so I understand perfectly! LOL Jaundiced Sasquatch–that’s me.
I only hope that whoever it was that called me that name in the first place saw that, instead of being cowed by her opinion, I promptly adopted her label. I also hoped that she was annoyed by it, but it may be that the pleasure was all mine. Who can tell? I enjoy it, in much the same way that I’m amused by a picture so bizarre that even my own mother, were she still alive, wouldn’t know who I was from THAT shot!
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Matt Gaetz: Scandals And Controversies
6 months ago
